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Can We Talk Songwriting

Interview with Ingrid Michaelson
Interview with Bruce Burch
Interview with Llew Haden of Wales Business Management
Interview with Randy Owen
Interview with The Redheads
Interview with Ed Salamon
Interview with John Braheny
Interview with Steve Williams
Interview with Shelley Jacobson
Interview with Grammy Winning Songwriter Robert Lee Castleman
Writing Up: Interview With Songwriter Joe Leathers
Writing Up: An Interview With EMI Writer Keith Anderson
Interview With Karen Taylor-Good
Interview with Jenny Yates
Interview with Deanna Walker
Interview With Hit Songwriter Bruce Sudano
Interview With Songwriter and Performer, Benita Hill
IInterview With Founders of www.SongU.com

Interview with Bruce Burch

Bruce Burch has had success in many facets of the music business including being a hit songwriter, operating his own publishing companies of hit songs, working for a major music publishing company, as well as being an artist manager. As a songwriter, Burch co-wrote two #1 singles for Reba McEntire, “Rumor Has It” and “It’s Your Call”. These two songs were also the album titles for two of Reba’s most successful albums. Burch also co-wrote songs on two other Reba albums, all of which have gone multi-platinum, selling well over 15 million records and CDs. He has also had top 10 songs on Billy Joe Royal (“Out Of Sight and On My Mind”), and T. Graham Brown (“The Last Resort”), a Top 20 song “Train Of Thought” recorded by Barbara Mandrell, and a Top 40 single “You Can’t Keep A Good Memory Down” recorded by John Anderson. Bruce has also had platinum and gold album recordings by George Jones, The Oak Ridge Boys, Collin Raye and Dan Seals. Bruce also authored a book “Songs That Changed Our Lives”. Two chapters of this inspiring book were picked to be included in the “Chicken Soup For The Soul” series of books. Amy Kurland, the owner of the Bluebird Café also asked Bruce to write a chapter for her new book on the history of the Bluebird that has recently been released by a major book publisher. Burch was inducted into the Atlanta Country Music Hall of Fame in November 2003. Recently Burch began a new chapter in his career as he was named Administrative Director of the new Music Business Program which he helped to create at his alma mater, the University of Georgia.

Doak – Bruce – you are a hit songwriter, successful publisher and now in charge of a great school of music at Georgia University! How did all that happen to one person?

Bruce - I often tell my students that success in the music business is surviving. That is what I've done-survive. I love being in "showbiz" and have been fortunate enough to be able to stay in it because I was resourceful.

Doak – You came to Nashville and were working at the front desk of a hotel and then were you signed to a publishing deal or how did the pub deal happen?

Bruce - One of the first people I met in Nashville was the great songwriter Mark Germino. I gave Mark one of my tapes of a few songs after about a year in Nashville. He passed it along to the legendary writer/publisher Paul Craft ("Dropkick Me Jesus", "Midnight Flyer", "Brother Jukebox). It took Paul two years to get to it but he called me on a Sunday and said he liked what he heard. Paul signed me shortly thereafter.

Doak – Talk a little about your days as a music publisher at EMI and wherever else you worked on the publishing side of the biz.

Bruce - I had my own publishing company for 5 years as I really couldn't find anyone who I felt pitched my songs as hard as I did. I actually think I was a better songplugger than a songwriter. I had some success on my own and my friend and mentor Gary Overton, who had taken over heading EMI Publishing in Nashville called me to come meet with him. I was actually trying to sell my catalog and find a publishing deal at the time so I thought that was what the meeting was about. After Gary and I sat down, I pulled out my CD of songs to play him and he said he didn't want to talk to me about writing for him, he wanted to talk to me about plugging the older "classic" catalog at EMI. I was sort of dumbfounded at first and told him I would think about it over the weekend. By the time I got down to the door to leave I knew I was going to take the job as some of my favorite writers of all time were in the EMI catalog including Kris Kristofferson, Dennis Linde, Tony Joe White and Tammy Wynette. It was too good to pass up! In the time I worked at EMI I got to meet all of them and to know Kris, Dennis, and Tony Joe pretty well. Plus I got a song recorded by everyone of them!

Doak – Now – you created and direct the University of Georgia Music Business Program – how did that happen?

Bruce - My friend Dr. Pam Browne hired me to teach a class at Belmont on music publishing and I loved it. I was a teacher and football coach for a year before I moved to Nashville to be a songwriter and that's what I would still be doing had I not come to Nashville. I don't have a doctorate which you need to teach in most university programs but I felt like I had been in the "school of hard knocks" in the music industry and had been a writer, a publisher, and even managed a couple of artists so I had a pretty good background in the music industry. I graduated from UGA and also grew up in GA and I was so surprised they still didn't have a music business program in such a great music town like Athens, GA (home to R.E.M., Widespread Panic, The B-52's, and many other great bands). Plus the Atlanta music industry has blown up in the past decade. So I approached Dean George Benson of the Terry College of Business at UGA where my brother David served on the Board. He loved the idea but it took us 4 years to get it up and running. I also found a donor in George Fontaine (owner of New West Records and a UGA graduate). It wouldn't have happened without Dean Benson and George's support.

Doak – UGA Music Business Program – when did it start and what is happening at the school? What has the first year or two been like for you?

Bruce - We started classes in January 2006. We have had about 150 students go through the program so far. It is a Certificate Program which means it's 7 courses totaling 21 hours of class. We are fortunate in that there is a music industry in Athens and Atlanta so the students can get a lot of real world education by doing externships and internships in music businesses. The industry has opened their arms to us. We have had 25 students who have now graduated and gained the certificate and 21 of those have paying jobs in the music industry which is pretty incredible given the shape the industry is in right now. But I think it's a great time for young people to get into the business. First of all they are so technologically savvy. Think of the biggest things that have happened in the business like myspace, facebook, and youtube. All of them were started by kids in their 20's. Plus since Georgia is a new music industry center there are a lot of new positions opening up all the time. I'm loving being back in Georgia too though I miss my buddies in Nashville! I still get back up there every couple of months!

Doak – What are you most excited about in the music business program?

Bruce - The opportunity to be a mentor to some really cool young people. Plus it's a little less nerve wracking than living by your wits writing songs or sweating blood songplugging.

Doak – Tell me about some of the successes of your graduates – job in the business as a result of going to your program.

Bruce - We had one student, Kevin Jeter, beat out 75 other candidates for a job at Live Nation in Atlanta. Also we have 3 students working in Nashville. Stephanie Mundy is working at Flood, Bumstead, McCready & McCarthy a business management firm, Jon Prine is working for PGA Global Music Agency which books R.E.M. and Widespread Panic and also co-manages Panic, and Taylor Cheek is working for Brentwood-Benson Music Publishing. We also have students working for NARAS in Atlanta, Clear Channel in Atlanta, and recently had one get hired by Universal Motown in NYC.

Doak – What else are you excited about in life?

Bruce - I still love music and Athens and Atlanta have a lot of great music. Plus I still get to see a lot of great Nashville writers and artists come through town like Phil Vassar, Luke Bryan, Rhett Akins, Hillary Lindsay, and Dallas Davidson who speak to our class. Hillary's sister Taylor is in our program and also Rosie Siman, Scott Siman's daughter, and Alex Hall, who's Dad is Jimmy Hall (of Wet Willie fame) have come through our program.

Doak – To sum everything up Bruce – it has been a please talking with you – any final comments you’d like to pass on to the great music industry?

Bruce - I just want to say how much I appreciate the Nashville music industry for being a great place to learn what I am passing on to a new generation. It was a great "classroom" and I had a lot of unbelievable mentors such as Bob Beckham, Dennis Linde, Paul Craft, Gary Overton, Glenn Middleworth, Layng Martine, T. Graham Brown, Roger Murrah, and the list goes on and on. I could never thank everyone who supported and taught me while I was in Nashville. I just hope I can help someone else and pass it on!

Doak Turner is a songwriter and owns the Nashville Muse www.nashvillemuse.com site and e-zine sent to 10,000+ readers every week. doak@nashvillemuse.com

Interview With Llew Haden of Wales Business Management

Llew Haden interview January 2008

Llew – tell me about Wales Business Management – what do you do?

Our services fall into two categories, business and personal.  We provide all the traditional business management services – bill paying, bookkeeping, tax preparation, investment management etc. – but we do it from a different perspective.  We believe we need to know our clients in depth, as people and as artists, so that we know why we do what is asked.  So, our clients trust us with very personal and professional information that helps us serve them better.  Business management from a mentoring perspective.

We also provide services for companies/investments that our clients’ have.  For example, one of our clients owns a cell phone content provider in Nigeria, and we provide financial and administrative services for that company.  We also provide invoicing, collecting and marketing services to a motivational speaker, and will soon provide those services for a sound engineer who spends most of his time on the road and does not have the time to keep up with day-to-day office functions.  Also we help clients with their private investment decisions.  And we picked up two clients who came to us with investments that had gone bad and we managed them out of those situations.

On the personal side, we assist with a wide range of issues that might distract clients from their careers.  For example, we help with weddings, adoptions, divorces, voluntary and involuntary medical procedures, wills, civic involvement, litigation and caring for extended family members, just to mention a few.  Our clients can stay more focused on their careers when we take these types of issues off their plates. 

With that said, we are a small firm with no intentions to get big.  People like us for the high level of 24/365 availability and service, and we will not lose that for the sake of growth.

Llew – who in sports and entertainment are clients of Wales? 

By contract we do not disclose our clients’ names.  We do not want vendors, friends and family soliciting us for something from the client.  Some clients choose to place my name or the Wales name in the public domain, and that is their prerogative.  But we are neurotic about confidentiality.  Our clients include professional athletes, artists, songwriters, and a sound engineer and motivational speaker.

Llew – what challenges do artists have that you have helped?

The challenges fall into two buckets.  The first is commitment to their trade with little knowledge of or interest in how the business side works, and the second is lack of focus.

When artists build their teams, they should bring in people who complement them and who they trust absolutely.  Then focus on their trade and let the team manage their areas of specialty.  We help in the team selection.

The second is lack of focus meaning that the artist is doing everything themselves and they are too scattered.  We believe an artist should write a business plan – they are a business.  We help with that.  And when written, the plan should cause the artist to set priorities and timetables to use their limited resources efficiently.

Llew – What are the most important issues someone should consider when selecting a business management firm?

The first issue is to pick people who know what they are doing and with whom you get along.  And pick a firm where you will be a significant entity and not be delegated to the newest hire.

Second, I am passionate about checks and balances.  I cannot imagine the circumstances where an artist’s interests are served well when one entity is managing everything and providing all services.  There is too much opportunity for conflicts of interest and, besides, few organizations are good at everything.  The minimum should be to have a manager, a business manager, and an accountant and none of the three should be affiliated in any way.  There should be a positive tension among the providers so each is helping the other perform better – to the benefit of the artist.

Interview With Randy Owen

Randy Owen interview – December 2007 at Dale Morris Agency headquarters.

Randy Owen – former singer and songwriter with the most successful country artist of all time! Go to www.alabama.com for more information on the band.

Doak – You have about 40 songs credited on ALABAMA albums – about 18 of them co-written with Teddy Gentry, a couple with Jeff Cook, Greg Fowler and various other songwriters.

Randy – I have never counted how many songs that got cut on our albums.

Doak – did you write a lot of songs on the buses back in the day?

Randy – back in the early days, there were a lot of people on the buses and it was hard to write on them. We flew a lot and it was hard to write on the airplanes – up and down and all that goes with being on those airplanes (laughs). We got so busy when we became “Popular” and didn’t write as much as I would have liked to back then.

Doak – did you set appointments to  co-write back then?

Randy – a lot of the songwriting was spontaneous writing. I just did not set a time to co-write.

Doak - Did you ever write a song that you knew was a hit song at the time?

Randy (Laughs) Na - I never wrote one I knew was a hit song!

Doak – What is your process for writing a song and has it changed over the years?

Randy - I wish I had a formula – like the great writers – but that is not me. I wish I could!

Doak – The great song, “Feels So Right” – one of the songs on the new CD, The Last Stand that is only available at Cracker Barrel. Do you remember writing that one?

Randy - I was 17 and wrote song one afternoon about my sweetheart, I had never known anyone that was as beautiful as that girl. A couple years later I played it for a girl from West Virginia back when we were playing at The Bowery in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. I was thinking about changing the 2nds verse and when I played the song - she told me not to re-write that 2nd verse– so I didn’t change it. I played at the Bowery one night and people seemed to like it. When ALABAMA became bigger I played it for Harold Shedd (our producer) in the studio at The Music Mill in Nashville. We cut the song and I didn’t play my original licks, but the musicians made it sound so good. I sang the song that night and people in the studio felt really good about, “Feels So Right”. When we were doing the 2nd June Jam in Fort Payne, Alabama – I was singing that song – looked across the lights – and the light beam was in the face of the girl that I wrote the song for years earlier – we smiled at each other – it was a special moment!

After the song was a big hit – Francis Preston of BMI called me and asked if I needed money. She said she  could advance me some money as I told her I wanted a home for me and my wife. Francis told me I could build a real nice house! As you go into the gates of that home – “Feels So Right” is right there on the gates!

On the new CD “The Last Stand” – it is a different arrangement – the way I originally recorded the song when I wrote it. The song was important to me – because I would sing it a little different than the record when we were on the road – make it more personal to the audience –one on one with each person. A lot of people told me over the years that several babies were born because of that song – a lady told me one time that she and her man were listening too long to that song one night and a baby named Joey was born nine months later as a result!

Doak – how long between the time that you wrote “Feels So Right” and you cut it on an album?

Randy - It was 10 or 12 years later for the song to be cut after I wrote it– “Hold on to those great songs”!

Doak - Now – who are you co-writing with for your new CD that is coming out – produced by John Rich?

Randy – I’ve been writing with John Rich and his crew Shannon Lawson, James Otto, and Vicki McGhee – The Muzic Mafia folks. I love those people – takes me back to the Myrtle Beach days – the Muzic Mafia is what I stepped into in Myrtle Beach in 1973 – all the varieties of music and people – and they all loved music of all kinds – Rock, Country, Southern Rock Mickey Spillain the famed author used to hang out with us – he would buy us beers when we didn’t have a lot of money– we’d go to his house in Murrell’s Inlet – just below Myrtle Beach and  we’d have an oyster fry and shrimp and a bunch of great food an many Sunday afternoons. I saw him a couple years ago before he passed way and he said he was working on another book at the time.

Doak – What songwriter that is no longer with us would you have loved to written song with if it would have been possible?

RANDY – (pause) HANK  - The king of them all!

Doak - What would that have been like to write with Hank Williams – ya wonder?

Randy - I just know I admire the lyrics simple way that he got across the rhyme schemes,  and all that still floors me – how this man could write these songs and it is like how can you write that perfect, deep, true and be so honest – Hank was the best! There are so many great writers – but he would be the one to write with if I could.

Doak – Did you write with many of the songwriters on Music Row back in the day?

Randy - I didn’t have a chance to as we were so busy on the road – a couple hundred shows a year and all the interviews, radio stations, people wanting to talk with us – just didn’t have the time to write much on The Row.

Doak – tell me about the song, “My Homes in Alabama” . You closed every show with that song and it always gave me chills to watch ALABAMA do that song!

Randy - – Teddy Gentry and I were writing that song – one of us wrote about the state and one of us wrote about the band. I don’t remember which one of us was writing about what – but we worked it out!  When we went to record it in the studio I finished the second verse (recites the lyrics).

When we wrote the song, “My Homes in Alabama”, – all we had was the first verse. We sang at the Bowery one night – played just the verse and the chorus of the song. There was a big guy that walked up to the stage and said, – said, “That’s the best southern rock song ever written. All those Southern Rock songs – Charlie Daniels, Marshall Tucker Band, Skynard -  all of them and that big guy told us that about our song – wow– that gave us a boost of energy! I just could not believe he said that to us!

Doak – do you have any advice for songwriters?

Randy – if it were me – I would do you want to be a commercial songwriter and make a lot of money –or be a songwriter and if you get a cut – you are going to be known for the songs you write? Two approaches to songwriting the way I see it. I chose to write songs that felt they were unique to me and thank God,  ALABAMA came along – those songs may not have been recorded by anyone else. Hank Jr. recorded, “Tennessee. River” and that was a blessing and an honor to have him cut that song. I think that if you want to be a commercial songwriter– come to Nashville, follow and watch the great writers and learn how to eventually write with them!

Doak Turner is a songwriter in Nashville and owner of the Nashville Muse www.nashvillemuse.com . Contact Doak doak@nashvillemuse.com

Interview With The Redheads

The Redheads, named for their long fiery red hair, are Britta, 19 and her sister/co-writer Brooke, 16. These Florida girls, living in Cartersville,Georgia but Nashville bound could very well be the next big thing. With their upbeat, sassy tunes such as "Boys Will Be Boys" and my personal favorite, the comical "Hillbillies Living in the City", they are headed for the big time. Don`t be fooled, they also touch very delicate subjects such as child abuse with their soothing melodic "Light a Candle". With the perfect combination of sweet and spicy ear catching music, these girls are a force to be reckoned with in country music. They make monthly trips to Nashville learning the craft and business and working on a great future with their music!

You can catch the Redheads on myspace at:
http://www.myspace.com/theredheadsbrittabrooke and website is http://theredheads.net

Jenna - Nashville is very competetive, where do you get your drive to keep going from?
Brooke - Well, for us, country music has always been a matter of the heart. At eleven years old I was trampled by my horse- beat up head to toe. Everyone thought I would be okay because there weren't any broken bones. But scar tissue had formed throughout my muscles and when I grew all my muscles ripped. Over night, I went from being in runners club, horse back riding, advanced ballet to not being able to walk for a full year. I lost my entire twelve year old year and to be honest a lot of dreams were shattered for me. I became very quiet and reserved. Just very, very, genuinely sad. I remember was laying in my bed one day flipping through channels when I found the country music station. The songs just grabbed my heart and shook it up. There were the sad songs like "Angels In Waiting" that were good to hear when you needed a good cry but most importantly just the fun songs that really got me involved in country music. Reba's song I'm Gonna Take That Mountain became my own personal theme song and my inspiration. I became a huge country music fan. It brought me out of my shell and made me laugh again. This has been more of a spiritual journey more than a journey for fame or fortune for me. I want to see how far this can go and do take it very seriously. Country music is all from the heart. Its songs from the heart and that's where I'd say we both get our drive from. I'll turn it over to Britta to tell her side of the story...
Britta- Yes, I agree with Brooke. That was our journey and how it all began with us. And our journey continues and we are thankful for all the amazing people and experiences we have encountered along the way. We don't get caught up in a feeling of competitiveness, we feel like everyone in Nashville has something to offer. We enjoy watching and listening to other aspiring songwriters. We rely on our hearts and our hard work to carry us through.
Jenna - How supportive have your parents been throughout your journey so far?
Brooke & Britta - Our parents have been very supportive. They've made many sacrifices for us. We even laugh. Our Dads car is like Chitty Chitty Bang Bang and he really needs a new car. But instead of getting things for his own self, he always makes sure we have guitar lessons, seminars, new strings, anything we need for the business. Our Mom makes sure we're safe and sound. Neither one is pushy or a stage parent or anything like that. They basically let us lead the way and make the decisions of our own careers.
Jenna - How do you deal with rejection and how important is it to build up tough skin in this town?
Brooke- It is important to have a tough skin. No matter what field you go into you can't take rejections to heart. Its all a learning process.
Britta- Both of us did advance ballet for years and boy, talk about rejection and criticism. I think that helped us build a tough skin. And yes, you need to have a tough skin in this business. Rejection is a part of life. You embrace it and never lose your drive.
Jenna - What are some key things you have learned from the Nashville circuit?
Brooke - Nashville is amazing. So many talented, wonderful people here. There's just no place like Nashville. The song writing community is so gifted. There's so many open mics and clubs around town. We just love The Bluebird Café. It is absolutely precious.
Britta - We have learned so much and are so thankful to be chasing our dreams. Nashville is the coolest town ever. All the open mics and the support from NSAI and SGA has been incredible.
Jenna - How often do you write and who are your strongest musical influences?
Brooke - I write every day. I take notes all day long in my phone which has a keyboard fortunately for me. Toby Keith, Reba, and Randy Travis are three of my main influences. But actually, anyone that's country has influenced in some way.
Britta - We try to write as much as possible. Over the past year Georgia has become our writing haven. We have two Quarter horses on a property in GA and it has just made a great inspiration for us to write. I always carry a notebook with me and am constantly jotting down ideas. Also, I have an ipod recorder in my purse and sing little melodies. So writing for us is constantly on our minds. As far as influences go it's like Brooke said, anyone who's country has influenced us. I honestly could go on and on, but some of my main influences are Loretta Lynn, Garth Brooks, and other duos like The Judds, Brooks & Dunn, and Montgomery Gentry.
Jenna - How important are workshops and organizations such as NSAI, ASCAP, and BMI to a songwriter just starting out in Nashville?
Brooke & Britta - We can't even begin to tell you how much we love NSAI and SGA! Both organizations have taken our writing to a whole other playing field. We recently attended a Song Camp and Songpossium with NSAI and the song critiques, the lectures, and all the information was just wonderful. NSAI is so supportive of songwriters and really helps you better yourself. SGA is also a blessing. The people we met through SGA were so talented and shared so much knowledge with us that we truly feel blessed to have both these organizations. We highly recommend any song writer to join those.
Jenna - Do you have any advice for out of town songwriters living outside of TN?
Brooke - NSAI has meetings in your state, so you can look up on their website to find a local chapter. If you can arrange to come in to visit Nashville that's really great. Join NSAI and SGA and you can have your songs critiqued long distance. Keep writing!
Britta - What's really cool about coming into Nashville is you have a support group. Everyone understands where you're coming from. Its really helpful to come to one of the seminars that NSAI or SGA put on annually because you'll get a lot more support and knowledge. But if you can't arrange it that's okay. They have different local chapters in many of the states and you also can submit your stuff for critique.
Jenna - Do you have any upcoming shows or performances we should know about?
Brooke & Britta - Currently, we’re focusing on writing and re-writing. We practice four hours a day on the guitar so the guitar is very important to us. Most Mondays you’ll find us at The Bluebird- sometimes performing sometimes listening. We’re headed back to our home state, Florida, in the spring to sing some national anthems at The Bright House Networks Field for the major league baseball spring training games. We’re excited about that.
Jenna Love is a songwriter in Findlay, Ohio. www.myspace.com/JennaLoveguitarist — www.JennLove.com

Interview With Ed Salamon

This is an interview with Ed Salamon regarding Country Radio Seminar (March 5-7)  and why upcoming artists should attend the event.  REGISTER TODAY . Attending the entire event is the best way to get to know the radio people that you will be wanting to visit next year or down the road – attending the seminars to learn what radio people go through, current topics in their industry and learn from other artists – Be There!

Doak

CRB - 615.327.4487 - ed_salamon@crb.org CALL and register TODAY – tell them you heard about it from Doak and you read the interview – OK?

THANKS!

Ed Salamon has been called "Country Radio's Cheerleader" by Billboard Magazine. From 1975 through 1981 he programmed the most listened to Country radio station of all time; WHN, New York. In 1981 he became partners with Dick Clark and others to start a radio network. After a series of acquisitions and mergers, Ed became President/Programming of the then largest radio network, Westwood One. On all of these networks, Ed always provided national radio opportunities for Country music via daily and weekly shows, specials and live concert broadcasts. After more than twenty years as head of Programming for a major radio network, Ed moved to Nashville in 2002 to be Executive Director of the Country Radio Broadcasters, for which he had been a volunteer Board member beginning in the mid 70s. Ed was inducted into the Country Radio Hall of Fame in 2006.

Doak - Tell me Ed - what is CRS and what is the connection with the artists in Nashville?

Ed- The Country Radio Seminar is presented by Country Radio Broadcasters, Inc., a 501c(3) non-profit organization. CRS brings together radio attendees from all over the country together with Country music professionals here in Nashville. It's a great opportunity for everyone to learn from each other. No other music format has anything of comparable scope. In addition to the learning and networking opportunities, CRS has developed into "market week" for Country music, providing artists of all levels opportunities to showcase for radio and the music industry. It's a lot of fun, too.

Doak - IF I was an upcoming artist in Nashville, why would I want to attend the entire CRS event?

Ed -Those of us in Country radio and Country music must continually keep learning about our ever changing business. At any point during the three day event, an artist will find information and networking opportunities that will help them grow their career. Ironically, the biggest complaint we get about the CRS agenda is "I couldn't do everything I wanted to because there was so much going on". Many attendees take time off from their jobs and attend at their own expense because they consider CRS essential for their personal career development.

Doak - What could I learn about radio and the music business that could help me as an artist by attending the full 3 days and nights of CRS?

Ed -Despite new avenues for the exposure of music, radio is still the primary source for consumers to discover Country music. If you are an artist, a songwriter, a producer or anyone else looking to radio to play your music, it is critical for you to understand as much about the medium as possible. Likewise, it is helpful for those in radio to understand the artists' point of view. Most of us realize that today's most successful Country artists are among the smartest about the business aspects of their career, especially marketing.

Doak - are there specific seminars and showcase that an artist should attend at CRS?

Ed -To be redundant, there is always a panel or networking opportunity from which an artist can benefit. However, I would especially advise an artist to attend Wednesday's "The Country Format Through The PPM Lens". Radio will soon be measured by different methodology and that is likely to affect radio programming. Artists can be in the room when Programmers are discussing how PPM  may change how they program music. On Thursday the Research 101 Panel will debunk some of the ridiculous rumors that circulate about how radio chooses it music. Artists don't have to depend on second hand stories, but can hear from the radio programmers themselves. On Friday, "Investing In The Future; How Radio And Records Can Break An Act" would be a great resource for an artist, especially one who is looking to break through. CRS is a great way for an artist, writer, producer or manager to get inside information that will put him ahead of his contemporaries.

Doak What are the dates again and how do people register for the event?

Ed -CRS-39 is Wednesday March 5 through Friday March 7 at the Nashville Convention Center. Register at www.crb.org, or by calling the CRB office at 615-327-4487. The latest information about the convention is always posted on the website, but all you readers should feel free to call CRB with any questions they have.

Doak - any other CRS comments and important activities that we should know about?

Ed- Our event may be called the Country RADIO Seminar, but the CRB Board and the CRS-39 Agenda Committee consist equally of radio and music industry volunteers. They believe that through "growth through sharing", we can create better opportunities for the entire Country industry. Since the CRS started in 1969, the number of Country radio stations in America has grown from about 600 to over 2,000, more than any other format. Once Country was a regional format and today there are Country stations in all parts of America. This provides a huge platform for the songs, artists and productions created by the Country music industry. I hope many of your readers take advantage of the event that brings music and radio together here in Nashville.

Thanks for your great questions that let me tell the CRS story.

Ed

Interview with John Braheny

John Braheny is a music industry consultant and mentor/coach for performers and songwriters. He and Lynn Chandler co-founded the legendary Los Angeles Songwriters Showcase (LASS), a national non-profit service organization for songwriters, from 1971 until joining forces with the Songwriters Guild of America in 1999. In addition to teaching at several conferences and organizations throughout the US and Canada, he has conducted 55 interviews with hit songwriters and producers for United Airlines In—flight (audio) Entertainment. For more information, visit his Web site www.johnbraheny.com .

The first two editions of “The Craft and Business of Songwriting” are credited to helping many hit songwriters including Jon Ims (She’s in Love with the Boy) achieve their songwriting skills. Jon Ims says, “Braheny’s Craft and Business of Songwriting (first edition) helped me organize my talent and motivated me to do something with it. The book was a godsend for someone like me living outside of the music business inner circle.

Diane Warren says on the back of the book, “The Craft and Business of Songwriting” offers practical street – level look at today’s world of songwriting. It’s essential reading for anyone contemplating a career as a professional songwriter, Read and Learn. Dianne Warren was a member of John’s LASS organization in the 70’s.

“The Craft and Business of Songwriting 3rd Edition” by John Braheny hit the bookstores October 2006.

Doak - Why did you find it necessary to do a new edition?

As you know, Doak, the landscape for songwriters and writer/artists has changed pretty dramatically since my 02 edition. Technological advances and the creation of more services to support indie artists have enhanced their efforts to be entrepreneurs. More opportunities are available in film/TV, video games etc., and I wanted to expand the info writers need to deal with that fast growing market. I wanted them to know how to approach music libraries, song-placement companies and music publishers who specialize in audio-visual music. I think it’s really important that writers know what takes place on the other side of the desk with those companies to be able to approach them professionally and effectively rather than just shotgunning their CDs out there hoping somebody will discover their songs.

Doak - When you look back – I believe the first book came out almost 20 years ago – what are the most dramatic changes you’ve seen for songwriters – any in the craft and what ones on the biz side really stand out to you?

The first edition came out in 1988. CDs were six years old and gaining fast on cassettes but cassettes were the way writers pitched their songs. Some of the major artists then were Steve Winwood, Guns ‘n Roses, George Michael, Bon Jovi, U2 and Anita Baker, Whitney Houston and INXS. In country there were George Strait, Dwight Yoacam, Keith Whitley, Rosanne Cash, Oak Ridge Boys, Alabama, Reba, The Judds. Hip Hop and Rap were well –established by then with NWA, Public Enemy, Run DMC among others and the big topic of discussion was sampling and whether rap’s explicit language would corrupt kids. Disaffected grown-up music fans who were raised on pop and rock were starting to gravitate to country and so were a lot of pop writers who started moving to Nashville in hopes of actually making a living writing “real” songs. I could go on and on about that but, for me, I believe that all popular music styles are valid though I saw Hip-Hop as primarily a producer's medium (still is) and I focused more on traditional songwriting. I came to realize later that the most successful Hip-Hop uses relatively the same kinds of structures as pop hits though there was more creative latitude because the writer/producers were in control. With the advent of cheap home multi-track recording more and more writers were also becoming producers, at least for creating their own demos.

When digital recording come in, it really escalated and I needed to reflect that transformation in the 2002 edition. The Digital Audio Workstation was probably the biggest tech innovation that changed the way writers, especially pop and Hip-Hop writers, could work. They could lay down tracks first and start to create and control how they wanted the song to sound (though sampled guitars still sound like crap).

Another factor on the creative side is that, since people can download individual tracks now, it’s more important than ever that writers come up with better songs. It used to be that publishers and record companies provided more of a filter before the indie DIY revolution but now too many writers just write songs and record them without any song feedback so there’s a lot of terrible stuff out there along with the good stuff. On the other hand, more of my consulting business is about helping writers improve and chose their best songs. So I can’t complain too much.

On the business side, once everybody had CD players, CDs replaced cassettes as the medium for pitching and with the Internet it’s gone to sending audio files online, though CDs are still hanging in there. The Internet also changed the way licensing was done and provided lots of new income streams and media – like music for video games and cell-phone ringtones you can buy online. Music for audio-visual use is exploding as more writer/artists/bands control both their songs and master recordings. Writers can produce broadcast quality recordings and relatively inexpensive high-definition video cameras are within reach of teens. Now we just have to teach them to license the music for their videos before they upload it to YouTube. The legal system and copyright law are still trying to catch up with the changes that all these tech advances have brought, so in the new edition I get into the new digital royalties available to writers and artists.

Doak - What kinds of information did you add for audio-visuals.

Info on how to get to music supervisors for film/TV and a Work For Hire Agreement. A lot of writers aren’t aware that when they do demos they need to have Work For Hire agreements signed by their musicians and singers before they can claim to own the master recordings. I included a list of all the ways music is used in film/TV and the codes used on cue sheets to designate those uses. I also include a sample cue sheet and a list of the best tip sheets both pros and amateurs use to find out about projects they can pitch to. There’s a lot more but those are just a few that I didn’t have in the last edition.

Doak - Aside from audio-visual arena, what other topics did you expand on?

Lots of other musical arenas are expanded in the book with web resources and interviews - children’s music, musical theatre, getting a record deal, why you may not want a record deal, etc.


Doak - I noticed that you’ve always included contributions by other experts in your book. Have you continued that in your new edition?

Absolutely. Obviously I’m not an expert on everything I feel writers need to know about. But I have made a point of finding out where to get that information. I feel very strongly about giving writers access to the best info. I just happen to know people who are experts in fields I’m not as experienced with or, even if I am, there are those who can explain it better. For example, David Cat Cohen is a wonderful pop music teacher and he’s always written the chapter on composing music so he updated that section and his examples. I also recommended other great books that can take readers a lot deeper than I could go within the scope of my book. Another example is that I asked Jeannie Novak to write a piece on the concepts involved in writing music for video games. I’d never seen that in other general songwriting books and Jeannie has written books on the topic. I asked Berklee lyric prof, Pat Pattison, to write a piece on what he calls the “No” Free Zone after telling me about his first collaboration in Nashville. Great stuff! Jon Ims wrote a breakdown of the techniques he used in writing “She’s In Love With The Boy” that’s a great lesson in re-writing all by itself. I used the critique sheet I developed for TAXI as a writer’s checklist for their songs by explaining all the points on the list. Lots of stuff like that.

Doak - What part of the book did you expand the most?

The chapter On Marketing Yourself and Your Songs. I came up with a lot more lists of services and websites and added sections on Blogging and Podcasting among other things as well as some legal opinions on Podcasting.

Doak - Were there other topics you wanted to add but couldn’t?

Yeah. One of the frustrating things is that there are new legal developments happening all the time regarding music licensing. There’s stuff that’s still being worked out, contested, fought about and it’ll still be in process after this goes to press. So the best I could do was say “Watch these websites (including johnbraheny.com) for further developments. Actually that’s one of the things I’ve always found fascinating about the business. Just when you think you know something – it changes. So it keeps me on my toes – but I like that.

Doak - are you looking forward to the next edition?

Are you kidding? It took me about 9 months to birth this baby and I was still working on it while I was on the road last May and June and I’m finally back to not having to tell my consult clients they’ll have to wait a little longer for their critiques and consults. No, I’m not looking forward to it but I’m always in the info-freak mode so I’ll keep collecting info anyway. When it gets to the place where I think too much of the info in this edition is obsolete, I’ll do a fourth edition.

Doak – Thanks John, your books have certainly been a blessing to me. I recommend songwriters read your book FIRST! I tell every songwriter I meet to read your book!

Thanks Doak – I wish the best for every songwriter!

Interview with Steve Williams

Steve Williams and Thom Shepherd co-wrote the #1 song, Redneck Yacht Club that went to the top of the charts for Craig Morgan. Below is an interview with Steve Williams.

Doak – When did you write the song, Red Neck Yacht Club and what inspired it?

Steve - Redneck Yacht Club was written in June 2003. Inspired by my wife Terri and I spending a lot of time out on Percy Priest Lake in Nashville. I 'd had the idea written down for about 6 months. I had told her about it. One day she said, who are you writing with today? When I told her Thom Shepherd she said, why don't you write that Redneck Yacht Club idea with him? I said yeah, he'd be great! Well I asked Thom, what about an idea called Redneck Yacht Club? He said, nah... but then we started spittin' out lines like take your Johnson, your Mercury or your Evinrude and fire it up, and before too long we said, nobody will probably cut this (pre Redneck Woman) but lets write it anyway!

Doak – What did your publisher’s think of the song and did you have to re-write the song?

Steve - We made a work tape and played it for Thom’s (Shepherd) publishers Mosaic. Our original second verse said, Bermudas, black socks and a tank top tan, he popped his first top at ten am that's Bob, with the hairy back. He's checkin' out the girls on the upper deck rubbin' in the 15 spf it's hot, he's bound to have a heart attack... Well they suggested we change the hairy back thing. We struggled to come up with a replacement line up until the time we demoed the song. We made Bob the president. We pitched the song around town.

Doak – How did the song get to Craig Morgan? What kind of timeline did it take for the song to get heard and then on the radio?

Steve - I was playing with Sherrie' Austin (BBR records)at the time. The label had booked a Radio tour for label mates Craig and Sherrie' for January and February 2004. We toured the east and west coasts and we all hopped on Craig’s bus. Craig and Phil Odonell, his producer /guitarist were listening to songs for his new record. I put about 5 songs on a CD and he liked 3 of them. Only one stuck! The label called soon after to put it on hold. I believe they cut the song in September 2004 and as we all know the first single was “That's what I love about Sunday”. Needless to say we would wait a long time before we found out our song, Red Neck Yacht Club was going to be a single.

Doak – What have you heard from people about the song and what did you do when you heard the song on the radio?

Steve - We've had so many people come up and say, that's our song, we sing it every weekend! Did you write that about party cove at the Lake of the Ozarks, or Lake Lanier? Everyone who's ever boated before connects with it. Thom Shepherd, my co-writer has had songs on the radio before (Riding with Private Malone #1 for David Ball) but this is my 1st single and my wife and I have been acting like little kids all this last summer. We'd get in the car and turn on the radio and yell there it is! Turn it up!

Doak - Do you have merchandise for Red Neck Yacht Club and where is it available?

We have Redneck Yacht Club merchandise available at www.redneckyachtclub.com . We feel very blessed and it's been a wild ride.

Doak – Steve – continued success and more #1’s in your future!

Doak Turner is a songwriter living in Nashville. He owns the www.nashvillemuse.com site and publishes the weekly Nashville Muse, which is sent to 10,000+ songwriters and music industry pros as well as promotion and production of songwriting seminars.

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INTERVIEW WITH SHELLEY JACOBSON by DOAK TURNER for MUSICDISH.COM

Shelley Jacobson is a Canadian based songwriter who has also been a lead singer with successful touring bands in Canada as well as a successful solo artist in her home region. She’s just been signed to Full Court Press Music Group in Nashville (Hyland Hills Music) as a staff writer, at a time when people claim that you can’t get a publishing deal if you live outside of Music City. I caught up with Shelley recently as she’s preparing for yet another trip down to Tennessee.

Doak: Shelley, you just got a publishing deal in Nashville and yet you’re based not just outside of Nashville but outside of the USA ! How did that come about – especially when the famous saying in Nashville is “must be present to win” ?

Shelley: I've been making trips back and forth to Nashville for the last 5 years. For the first few years I kept a low profile...learning as much as I could with my craft from the song camps at NSAI and other music conferences. I was like a sponge soaking up as much as I could. I just kept my head down and concentrated on building my writing chops. I didn't start making appointments with publishers until other industry pros told me that I was where I needed to be to hook up with publishers. One of those people was Sara Light from Songu.com. I joined up with Songu and took every lyric writing course they offered. Sara Light (SONGU) told me that she wanted to hook me up with Pat Rolfe from ASCAP. A meeting was made with Pat and it was amazing! She listened to every song that I had on a 10 trk cd and when the last song finished, she looked at me and said "You're ready to shop around ...let me make some calls" I almost fell out of my chair!! I was trying to play it cool...but I was so excited I felt like jumping up and down. Pat made some calls on my behalf and I was set up for my next trip back. That also gave me the confidence to go out there and make other appointments on my own. I met up with the publishers Pat had set me up with, and the meetings went well. Two of them wanted me to keep sending them everything I wrote after that and the other companies set me up with their staff writers...so again. I was set up for my next trip back.

When I came back into town I met up with another publisher and played them my material. They listened all the way through and said that 6 of the songs on the cd were ready to fly out the door. Then they asked what I was looking for in a staff deal...I had to stop myself from looking over my shoulder to see where the reality cameras were set up...It was an incredible feeling.

After that meeting...I met up with another publisher that has a co-venture with Warner Chappell. He listened to my catalog and asked me not to sign with the previous publisher until he spoke with Warner. I was so excited after that meeting I could barely speak!!! A couple of weeks after that I was informed that he would like to sign me, but Warner only had one slot for him to sign a writer/artist...It was very disappointing, but I really appreciated him going to bat for me.

The deal that I just signed came from Mike Hyland at "Full Court Music Press". I was introduced to Mike through my co-writer Lorna Flowers. Mike was pitching Lorna's catalog on the row and Lorna asked him to take a listen to some of my stuff. He agreed to take a listen and I guess he liked what he heard.

Doak: How do you think your publishing deal will work on a daily basis, given that you’re still going to be based outside of Nashville, at least for now ?

Shelley: It would be pretty difficult for me to get my material to the right people without a staff deal. My publisher is based out of Nashville which means he will be able to get my material to the A&R reps and producers that he knows are looking for material for their artists. Mike has also emailed me to set up co-writing appointments with other writers when I am back in town. So that's a big help. Eventually we (my family and I) will end up moving to Nashville, but for now I'm making frequent trips back and forth. Again...I'm just keeping my head down and trying to come up with fresh ideas for my co-write sessions when I'm back in town. My daily schedule consists of writing and demoing my material in my studio.

Doak: Can you describe a typical day for you, for your songwriting ? Do you write every day ?

Shelley: I have to write everyday otherwise I get cranky. I usually wake up early and write for a few hours before my family gets up. I'd say a typical day consists of me writing 3-5 hours a day. In the evenings I record the demos in my home studio. So it pretty much fills the day. When I’m not writing I’m checking out material from other writers and trying to find new music that inspires me.

Doak: If there have been days when you’ve felt discouraged, how have you managed to work through those? What have been the main obstacles and challenges you’ve faced and what can you tell me about how you’ve overcome or worked through them ?

Shelley: The most frustrating thing for me is not being in Nashville. Sometimes a co-writer will call/email me and say..."Guess who I just wrote with...or you won't believe who I ran into at the Bluebird. The other thing is people forget who you are if you're not in their faces all the time. That's very discouraging. The way I try to over come my frustrations with that is by keeping my head down and focusing on the song and working even harder. Everything else is an illusion. The staff deal, the cut...the hype...it's all a major distraction that can suck you in and end up taking your time away from the main goal...writing a great song! Don't get me wrong...I'm very grateful for my staff deal and the support I've received so far...but I really need to stay grounded. I think the best thing about living in Nashville is that there is so much going on around you, but the downfall of living in Nashville is, there is so much going on around you ;-)

Doak: Songwriters have different ways of getting their creative juices going. How does the songwriting process work for you ?

Shelley: I collect hooks and phrases that I hear in conversation or read and write them into my pocket Casio. I usually go through my list of hooks and then start writing the lyric from the hook. Sometimes I start noodling around on my guitar...I love rhythmical riffs... that usually helps me get the juices flowing.

Doak: You’ve had the opportunity to write with some #1 and hit writers such as Roger Cook (300 hits including George Strait’s #1 “I Just Wanna Dance With You” and “One Night At A Time” and the classic songs “Talking In Your Sleep” and “I’d Like To Teach The World To Sing”), “Benita Hill (who wrote 3 Garth Brooks’ hits – ‘2 Pina Coladas” “Take The Keys To My Heart” and “It’s Your Song”) and Joie Scott (who wrote Collin Raye’s #1 “Not That Different”), among others, and I know you have some other hit name co-writes set up. How did/do those come about and do you approach them any differently than when you’re writing with unsigned writers ?

Shelley: Lorna Flowers set me up with some of them. It's all about relationships in this business and networking. I try to help out other writers and they help me out by introducing me to people they think I should be writing with. I was really nervous and intimidated the first time I wrote with a big name writer. I think the first big name was Roger Cook. But once we got into the session, the song took over and my nerves took a back seat thank goodness!!! I usually try to come into a co-write with a verse and chorus. That helps ease the tension for me, and also takes a bit of the pressure off. It's easier for me to start that way than to just dive into a new idea from scratch. I really think that's a confidence thing...I'm starting to feel more at ease and more confident and I'm enjoying the process of co-writing now. At the beginning I was scared to death! I was always so afraid that I'd end up saying something stupid and loose all credibility. But it's kind of cool in a co-writing situation...it's like a game of ping pong once you get in your groove. The ideas just keep going back and forth.

Doak: How has the internet been a useful tool for you to be able to work with people outside of your home area and to pitch your songs ?

Shelley: The internet has been extremely useful. I co-write to this day with writers all over the world by sending mp3 files and word files back and forth. I'm also able to upload demoed songs to my web site and pitch them to different pitch leads that way which helps cut back on supply costs and mailing.

Doak: Are there any organizations that you’ve found have been particularly helpful to you on your songwriting journey ?

Shelley: Songu.com helped me take years off of my craft. I've taken every lyric course offered and continue to study with them. Danny Arena and Sara Light are great people that have poured their hearts and souls into Songu and I've benefited from all their hard work and labor. Sara is also one of the people that referred me to Pat Rolfe from ASCAP.

Pat Rolfe from ASCAP has been amazing! She got behind me and made referrals to companies that I wouldn't be able to get into otherwise. She worked closely with me when I was signing my staff deal. I know I wouldn't be as far along as I am without her help and support.

SOCAN has also been very helpful. Dan Kershaw and Lynne Foster have been very supportive and have helped me along the way. Dan informed me that SOCAN would like to get behind me and help me network with some of Canada's major artists.

Doak: When you were asked to open for rock legends Foreigner, up in Canada last year with your own band, how did that feel ? Did you use different songs in your set to accommodate that performance?

Shelley: It was such a rush opening for a band that I grew up listening to. Their music is responsible for most of my speeding tickets ;-)

We stuck to our original material and it went over well. We have a real Bonnie Raitt meets Sheryl Crowe kind of feel that we can add some edge to if we have to.

Doak: In the 90’s, you were the lead singer in two separate successful touring bands in Canada but what was it that made you want to be a songwriter as opposed to an artist?

Shelley: For me it's the writing. There's some kind of magic in writing a song that you just can't stop playing. I love playing out and performing...but I have to balance it otherwise I get frustrated if my writing schedule starts to get sidelined.

Doak: When I looked at your website (www.shelleyjacobson.com) I saw how many great things have happened for you. For instance, how did your success happen in Europe, where you had a #3 song on the European Country radio chart, with your first release “Get Gone”.

Shelley: Stuart Cameron from Hot Disc sends out a compilation cd to radio stations all over Europe. He put my song "Get Gone" on one of the cd's and sent it out there. I really wasn't expecting much to happen. It was a nice surprise when I received the indie chart with the rotation status.

Doak: What have been the main highlights for you in the last couple of years?

Shelley: The staff deal is at the top of the list. Having a couple of songs on hold with Terri Clark and one with Julie Roberts was a real rush. I'm just so blessed to be working with the amazing people I'm working with. It's all good.

Doak: I hear that you’ve just received a prestigious award from the city of Thunder Bay, in Canada, for your songwriting achievements. Can you tell me a bit more about that? It sounds like musicians don’t often get this particular award – is that correct ?

Shelley: To be honest I felt a little uncomfortable with that one. When I received the call, I said to the person on the other end..."Why me?"

There are so many talented people that live where I do...they deserve the same recognition.

Doak: So do you think your writing trips to Nashville helped you in achieving recognition and winning that award – and how do you think your songwriting and work in Thunder Bay has helped you with your writing in Nashville ?

Shelley: Everything ties in. It takes one to fuel the other. Without the help from the folks in Nashville...my craft wouldn't be where it is now and I wouldn't be receiving the attention that I'm receiving here at home.

Doak: You make regular trips to Nashville. How often do you come here and can you tell me a bit about how you, typically, prepare for a trip and also, a little bit about if, and how, each visit has made a difference ?

Shelley: I try to come back and forth every couple of months. I have to do that until I get my 01 immigration visa in place. Every trip to Nashville sets me up for my next one. The publishing appointments that Pat Rolfe set me up with resulted in co-write sessions with their staff writers. So now I'm booking ahead with my co-write sessions. As far as preparing for a trip...I guess I try to focus a little more on ideas to bring to the table for co-writes...but everything's pretty much the same on a daily basis...just concentrate on writing.

Doak: Shelley. Many thanks for taking time to talk with me. I wish you every success with your publishing deal in Nashville and look forward to hearing how that’s developing.

Shelley: Thanks so much Doak.

Doak Turner.

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Interview with Grammy Winning Songwriter Robert Lee Castleman

Robert Lee Castleman is a Grammy winning songwriter living in Nashville , TN. He has had (7) cuts with Alison Krauss, including “The Lucky One” which won a Grammy for “Best Country Song”, Four songs on Alison's new CD, (Lonely Runs Both Ways) a title track on a Chet Atkins album and a cut on an Alan Jackson CD.

Doak –       Tell me about writing your great song, “The Lucky One” that was recorded by Alison Krauss.

RL-            I was at the National Guitar Workshop in 1984, David Smolover's guitar camp in Connecticut , They study all styles of guitar playing. That number is

                  1-800-234-NGSW. I wrote that song at that particular workshop. A friend of mine, Buck Brown did a guitar/vocal demo of the song. We even did a live version of the song at a club that he recorded. When I was touring with Alison Krauss years later, the summer of 2000, Buck had moved to Washington , DC . I called him and told him we were going to be playing Wolf Trap in Vienna , Virginia . He stopped by and handed me a cassette of what he considered great old RL songs. We were listening to the cassette on the tour bus. When it came to the song “The Lucky One” Alison asked, “What is that”?  She recorded it on her album "New Favorite" and changed it to 2^nd person. It was written in first person.  

Doak –      Did Alison take writing credit on the song, since she changed it?  

RL –         No, she doesn’t do that.  

Doak –     You had the song, “Forget About It” a couple years earlier that she had recorded. Tell me about that song.  

RL –          It was the title track to a previous album with Alison. I wrote “Forget About It” around 1985, maybe even earlier.

Doak –       How did she hear that great song (Forget About It)?  

RL-           Alison’s husband had a surprise birthday party for her around 1999. That was the first time I had ever met her. Of course at the party, they stuck a guitar in my hand and that was one of the songs that I sang that night. Alison said she had to record that song! She also recorded ‘Let Me Touch you for a While”.

Doak –        What is the story behind “Let Me Touch You For A While”?  

RL –           That song was also written in the 80’s. Someone even had a live recording of it when I recorded it at the famed “The Bitter End” in New York City back in the 80’s. That song was also on the cassette I mentioned previously that Buck brought to me in Virginia .

Doak –         Your connection with Alison was with her husband – right?  

RL –           Yes- I met Pat Bergeson in Connecticut at the Guitar Workshop back in 1984-85 and we became good friends. He said that we should put together a band and play The Bitter End and other clubs in New York City . We did that as “The Checkered Past Band. Chet Atkins had come to the Guitar workshop with his friend John Knowles, who used to transcribe for Chet.  John works for the Country Music Hall of Fame and is probably one of my all time favorite guitar players. I had a previous connection with Chet through and album that he had produced for Homer and Jethro on RCA years prior called "Songs My Mother Never Sang". Listening to Chet records was the inspiration for me to fingerpick a guitar. I brought that album up, and since Jethro was Chet's brother-in-law we hit it off right away. I gave him a copy of a demo tape that I had made and Chet passed it on to his manager. His manager and I got hooked up and moved to Nashville in 1989. After I was here for a while, Chet recorded an instrumental song of mine called "Sneakin' Around" that was the title track of the album, the first cut I ever had. Chet and Jerry Reed did the song on the album. Pat and I made the original demo of "Sneakin' Around" and after Chet heard it he wanted to meet Pat. He loved Pat's playing so much he asked him to play on the record. Pat ended up moving to town a little later. To make a long story short.  He knew Alison's brother, Victor, who hooked him up with, not only Lyle Lovett but Alison as well.. Pat married Alison, then came the birthday party and the rest is history.  

Doak –        You had those songs that were 20 years old and Alison cut them. Now she has a new CD (Lonely Runs Both Ways) and what has happened for you on her new CD?  

RL –           She recorded "Restless" the first single off the new CD. Another song called "Gravity" that I wrote is on the CD. I wrote that song in 90 or 91. A cut off my record called "Crazy as Me" which was my title track, and then a funny thing happened on another song. She called me from LA and says, RL, I got this idea for a song that I want you to write.  I said I do not normally do things that way, but I'll take a whack at it. She said the title is "It Doesn't Have To Be This Way" It is about two people that do not have a relationship that are breaking up. Of course I asked what happened and how does that work? I was sitting at the house one morning about six, picked up a guitar and came up with the song. I wrote it in about maybe twenty minutes. Made a guitar /vocal demo and called to play it for her on the phone. She said she loved the song. She recorded that song on the album for a total of four cuts on the latest Alison Krauss CD! (Lonely Runs Both Ways)  I went from one cut on the Allison CD (Forget About It) to two cuts on the next (New Favorite) to now four songs on the current album. The next thing is for her to do a complete record of Robert Lee Castleman songs (Laughter)! That CD would be great!

Doak –        You have written these songs, you played them. How did you end up pitching these songs to her?  

RL -          "Restless" was on a CD that I gave her along with a bunch of other songs to see if there was anything that she liked. She called me up and said she had to have “Restless” and Gravity”.

Doak –       Did she help you get your record deal with Rounder a couple years ago?  

RL –          Absolutely – that goes back to the night at her birthday party mentioned previously. I played for the crowd for about 45 minutes to an hour with her husband Pat. She called Ken Irwin the next day at Rounder Records and told him that he had to make a CD with me. That happened real quickly.

Doak –       So you had a record and she took you on a tour.  

RL –          We did about thirty dates that I opened for her. Alison and I and a driver and a nanny to watch her little boy were on one bus. Another bus had the band and a truck for the crew. It's the only Bluegrass band I know of with two busses.  It was a barrel of laughs.

Doak –      Can you tell me about writing a song or two, starting with “The Lucky One”  

RL –         The Lucky One----It's about a guy that has a positive outlook on life. He sees the glass half full rather than half empty. “I’m the lucky one so I've been told, free as the wind blowing down the road. Loved by many, hated by none you'd say I was lucky if you knew what I’d done”. If not me, he's one who has a checkered past and has been very lucky to have survived it. It was an honor to be nominated but that sucker won the Grammy and I'm keeping it. Thank You…. I am---- the lucky one.

Doak –      What were you doing when you found out about the Grammy?  

RL-           I was a OTR – Over The Road – Long Hall Trucker better known as a truck driver. I started driving in 1995 to put food on the table. It has taken me 50 some years to become an over night success as well as receive any accolades in this business and all songwriters need to have a job to keep them going until success hits.  I was sitting in Severville , TN with a load of scrap metal that I was getting ready to unload. The cell phone rang and it was Alison. She was so excited, telling me that my song was nominated for a Grammy. Here I am in dirty, filthy clothes, been up all night driving from the coast in Alabama to get to Severville. I had been up about 20 hours when she told me I got nominated for a Grammy for “Best Country Song of the Year”. I near soiled myself (Laughter).

Doak –        Did you ever have any other artists call you when you were on the road?  

RL –           Alan Jackson called me one day to tell me he wanted to record a couple of songs. He cut “Stay Here” and also “Kind of like a Rainbow” He only recorded the song, “Stay Here” on his “When Somebody Loves You” CD.

Doak –       What was your famous quote about your Grammy trophy?  

RL –           I have a famous quote? That's good to know--Peter Cooper from The Tennessean asked me what I was going to do with the Grammy Award. I told him that it would look good on the hood of my 18 Wheeler! 

Doak –        Let’s talk about the new single “Restless”  

RL –           Restless - It's an honest song that came at a time of confusion in my life. I was in jail in Martinsburg , WV . I had been arrested for drunk driving after attempting (in vain I might add) to drown the many sorrows one is forced to deal with after ones heart lay broken. I had successfully consumed three times my weight in Wild Turkey (water back) and for this accomplishment spent a wonderfully somber evening in jail. My first wife to be decided that she did not want to be my first wife which  set into motion a chain of events that later left me alone in a cell at "lights out".  The lyric, “Honey I know that you’ve been alone some, why don’t you phone some, ‘cause I love you” came from that night in jail as well as "I been put down, pushed around, apprehended and led down town and I can't help it if I'm full of fight 'cause I'm Restless tonight…. It was the first time that I came up with a lyric without a guitar. 

                    I wrote the lyric for a simple musical piece and added it later. I did a demo in Hagerstown , MD and that is what Alison heard on a CD. That song was written around 1981.

Doak –       How did you keep track of all these songs over the years?  

RL-          There are a lot of songs that people have kept over the years. I have forgotten about many of them and maybe someday someone will bring an old tape to me of way back then. That is the way “The Lucky One” was heard!  I do not have a system. If I write a song that is a hit at my house for however long it takes me to wear it out, I just keep the tape around the house.   I give it the whistle test.  If the melody sticks in your head that's a good thing.  I remember hanging with Chet Atkins one night in Nashville . We were at “The Cockeyed Camel” a bar out Highway 100 around Bell Meade. We were walking out halfway during a guy’s show that night and Chet asked what I thought of the guy’s songs. I said that the music was so complicated that I could not remember any of it.  Chet said, “Well as long as he keeps doing that I won’t go out of business” (laughter).

Doak –        What would you tell any songwriters?  

RL –         To always be tenacious, never give up chasing your dream. It is a great job if you can make a livin